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RedlineMan

Wilcom Digitizer V5 - Noob - Need Help

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I very much appreciate the conversation, by the way. It is good to not feel alone, and it is good to bounce ideas around, as solutions occur much more readily.

 

Where's everybody else?  :unsure:

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I have been employing your save-and-click-somewhere technique since yesterday, and I just now disproved it, at least in my case. I just got gonged!

I'd like to get hooked up with a software guy at Wilcom!

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Hello!   I'm a user of Digitizer 5.0 and I've enjoyed reading your posts.   Are you aware of the Facebook group "Janome MBX Digitizer 5.0 by Wilcom"?   Or, "Machine Embroidery Enthusiasts"?  Or,  "Wilcom Hatch Hatchlings".   I'm frustrated that Hatch seems to have so much more support than Digitizer - they even have the ability to import fonts.   I'm trying to figure out how to stitch tiny words - and I hate the running scripts that come with Digitizer - any advice for me?

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Hey;

I have been using some of the fonts offered by V5, but all of the other fonts already in my computer's font library are also available to me in Digitizer.

I have not been very impressed with the fonts included with V5, but you have to look at this topic a bit differently. As much as what you are seeing on your screen really truly looks like stitching, it is FAR from WYSIWYG. The results of a stitchout are often far different than what you are designing, and you will very likely find that many of the fonts you may be used to using in a graphic environment do not at all translate to stitching well. As dorky as a lot of the stock V5 stitch fonts look, they actually STITCH well.

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wow! Hi RedlineMan and Alecu Neamtu, i am so sorry you have not been able to get help with this software! im not sure if you know but the Janome V5 software is the twin software of wilcom Hatch!  so if yu are looking for help with this, search mainly for wilcom hatch, there are just so many more sites  for hatch than there is for janome! a couple of differences are :- V5 has corel draw, cross stitch and a very basic photo stitch, hatch does not have these. also a few of the tools are in different places in the tool bar at the side but that is it! i would love for you to join the wilcom Hatch Facts group on facebook where you will get pretty  much any help needed.  here is the link. please if you join just take a quick read of the pinned post :)  here is the link, there are a few other groups to do with hatch but this one is run by professonal digitizers who have had many years of using different softwares and digitizing experience.

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Thanks for the tip, KK;

I have been in contact with Janome again, and I think things are moving toward getting Wilcom themselves involved. I think it is quite possible that my computer is not as powerful as it might be to run the software, as suggested by Janome. However, I am not willing to believe that it should be this difficult to get it to run clean. I have posted some recovery files and error messages to Janome and I believe they will be forwarded to Wilcom for review. I will certainly post up anything that comes of this.

I continue to use the software successfully, despite all the freezes and lockups. The latest thing it likes to do is lose the HASP drivers, so I have to reinstall them on a fairly regular basis. Not sure what that is all about, but there it is. Despite the many quirks and foibles of the software, I manage to get some really nice product out of it.

Fireantz1.jpg

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Redline man, if your hasp gets knocked sideways again see if it coincides with an operating system update. I've been teaching Janome/Wilcom software for many years, and the only gripe I have with it is the fact its linked to Corel. Corel has a nasty habit of failing and crashing V5. It did the same in earlier versions.

Hatch, which is Wilcom's first real domestic software, lacks the full functionality of V5 but is still a great program, plus it doesn't have an umbilical cord to Corel.( If you use V5 and Windows 10 expect problems as Win 10 doesn't support Corel x6. ) Though Hatch, Digitiser MBX v5 and the Bernina software all have similar user interfaces, they are not triplets, the background processes the end user doesn't get to see, are different. I like Hatch and teach it, but I prefer to use V5. If you want to work commercially then look at Wilcom's commercial software, Embroidery Studio 4. You have complete control of every aspect of digitising. The user input threshold jumps way up, it's worth investing in as it is designed for commercial digitisers and multi needle machines. 

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Thanks Magnut;

I have no basis to compare V5 to any other digitizing software, as I've never used any but this. I can only compare it to other programs I've used, like Photoshop, CORELDraw, Solid Edge, and so on. Beyond and apart from the fact that digitizing is a much different environment than any other type of software, I feel the V5 is a strong program. I continue to to feel it is somewhat buggy, but it is powerful enough to create some good stuff. I don't know if Janome is going to continue to support it or not. I keep hearing various rumors that they are looking to or have dropped it. I've sort of given up on getting them to help me keep it from freezing and shutting down, which it seems to do less of these days. Now, just as I say that, it will have a fit, no doubt.

I feel it is quite expensive, and rather unstable, but you can do some good work with it.

Phantoms1.jpg

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Ah yes, the rumours, trouble is rumours are rarely correct and tend to get inflated over time. Just before the launch of Janome/Wilcom MBX version 4, the then CEO of Janome America struck a deal with the owner of a past its sell by date program, without first getting the go ahead from the parent company in Japan, it was marketed as the Janome Artistic Sewing Suite.  Tokyo insisted the Janome flash be removed. It's a long complicated story and I don't have all the facts so I wont try to conjecture the reason. Last year during the Janome City Tour dealers saw V5 was on the close out list and I was informed, so being a nosey old bat I decided to do a little digging. I'm a retired school teacher, was a free motion embroiderer, glass engraver, illustrator, all of which I did as a professional, plus I am a classically trained Arts and Crafts specialist, and an extremely good researcher. 

October last year Janome America agreed it would continue to support both the current and future versions of V5, current and those first time buyers wishing to use V5 could purchase upgrades or new versions via their dealers just as they have always done. Whether Janome America which is only a subsidiary with a classic teenagers dislike of parental control  honours that remains to be seen, but the parent company in Tokyo has requested that Wilcom  continue developing MBX as that is their flagship software, so that augurs well for the future of MBX V5. At the moment JAI is pushing the Artistic Sewing Suite, now a combination of all its modules and improved GUI as Artistic Digitiser, its a straight rebrand of Creative drawings, significantly reduced in price to match Wilcom's Hatch. Dealers have been told and are continuing to be told, domestic end users don't want all the digitising capabilities that exist in V5. The Wilcom product is too expensive, which is ironic given that JAI not Wilcom set the price, V5 doesn't have cut commands for vinyl cutting machines, equally ironic as it was JAI that prevented the inclusion of cut formats and creation of rhinestone templates, items Wilcom had developed for V4. 

Your crashing problem, first of all V5 is stable, ok I use a workstation, way over specced for V5  but I need the higher spec for rendering videos, and my various digitising programs, 2.40 gigahertz Intel Xeon E5-2630 v3, Multi-core (8 total) Hyper-threaded (16 total) Intel(R) 9 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller Standard SATA AHCI Controller (3x) NVIDIA Quadro K2200 [Display adapter]
4k Iiyama PL2888UH [Monitor] (27.8"vis) 32 gig of RAM.

Don't use the Corel linkage in the program, do all your graphic work outside of V5, I use win 8.1 and Microsoft have been quietly slipping in procedures that are similar to those in win 10 that don't support Corel x6, next you take control of your parameters by disabling Auto fabrics, you'll find that in the Design settings5abba5c136eaf_designsettings.PNG.a5589b14dec2451bf14977290abb1bd2.PNG5abba5889110f_autofabrics.PNG.399b91ce1ca4f545e3f8b9a6f161e6a6.PNG

untick auto fabric, you now decide density, underlay, stitch length, and the program wont impose them based on fabric type. You can preset stitch lengths, set your own satin stitch density, the default 0.36 is too tight ( I use metric) I make mine around 0.43 to 0.45 for most things but looser for designs I intend to stitch on clothing, I increase the underlay. Now go to Help and check your version. If it isn't V5.0P go and download it from Janome Global and install it. I never use Auto save, I  save frequently the whole time and I select Paint as my graphic editor, that's under Software settings. Because of the conflict between Corel x6 and win 10 and it now seems 8.1 you can run V5 under compatibility mode for win 7, so that could be a route to try.

The reason people are told not to uninstall the program is because of the Corel linkage, its far better to re run the last update V5.0P which will then repair any damaged scripts. When did you last use the Revert and Purrec (purge) to clear old backups, reset the program to factory settings, they do need to be used if you do a lot of digitising.Right I have to get on I have a whole stack of work that needs my attention.

check version.PNG

user interface settings.PNG

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NnnnyaaaaaOK;

That's a lot to digest, but..... THANKS!!!!!! I'm pretty sure I have the latest version. I'm running in compatibility mode already. I purge the RECOVER and BACKUP folders semi regularly. All the stuff that Teresa (Janome USA) has suggested. I think I am still running auto fabrics, so I will try fiddling with that. I have never used the COREL functions because, being a long time user of Draw X3, they made absolutely no sense to me, and seemed utterly redundant. I'd be quite glad to delete that modality, frankly. NEVER use it.

Teresa has felt that my laptop's lack of overall computing power may be the culprit when it comes to all the shutdowns. I don't completely discount that notion, but this is the only program I have such problems with, and it happens even at times of seemingly little overall "load." Often it is when I simply save something before closing it, whether I have made changes or not.

I've just decided to rationalize that it is a bit flaky, and I keep moving ahead regardless.

 

BlackAttack1.jpg

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RedlineMan. i never eve rcontact Janome with any problems i have with V5, i go straight to Wilcom and they are more than helpful, Janome are a waste of time, i have heard of many many people still waiting for help months after they contacted janome! use this link to contact wilcom, they will be in touch within hours or a couple of days, remember they are located in Australia :)  https://www.wilcom.com/en-us/hatch/support.aspx  hopefully Janome will drop V5 cause then Wilcom will take over it. 

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7 hours ago, magnut said:

Ah yes, the rumours, trouble is rumours are rarely correct and tend to get inflated over time. Just before the launch of Janome/Wilcom MBX version 4, the then CEO of Janome America struck a deal with the owner of a past its sell by date program, without first getting the go ahead from the parent company in Japan, it was marketed as the Janome Artistic Sewing Suite.  Tokyo insisted the Janome flash be removed. It's a long complicated story and I don't have all the facts so I wont try to conjecture the reason. Last year during the Janome City Tour dealers saw V5 was on the close out list and I was informed, so being a nosey old bat I decided to do a little digging. I'm a retired school teacher, was a free motion embroiderer, glass engraver, illustrator, all of which I did as a professional, plus I am a classically trained Arts and Crafts specialist, and an extremely good researcher. 

October last year Janome America agreed it would continue to support both the current and future versions of V5, current and those first time buyers wishing to use V5 could purchase upgrades or new versions via their dealers just as they have always done. Whether Janome America which is only a subsidiary with a classic teenagers dislike of parental control  honours that remains to be seen, but the parent company in Tokyo has requested that Wilcom  continue developing MBX as that is their flagship software, so that augurs well for the future of MBX V5. At the moment JAI is pushing the Artistic Sewing Suite, now a combination of all its modules and improved GUI as Artistic Digitiser, its a straight rebrand of Creative drawings, significantly reduced in price to match Wilcom's Hatch. Dealers have been told and are continuing to be told, domestic end users don't want all the digitising capabilities that exist in V5. The Wilcom product is too expensive, which is ironic given that JAI not Wilcom set the price, V5 doesn't have cut commands for vinyl cutting machines, equally ironic as it was JAI that prevented the inclusion of cut formats and creation of rhinestone templates, items Wilcom had developed for V4. 

Your crashing problem, first of all V5 is stable, ok I use a workstation, way over specced for V5  but I need the higher spec for rendering videos, and my various digitising programs, 2.40 gigahertz Intel Xeon E5-2630 v3, Multi-core (8 total) Hyper-threaded (16 total) Intel(R) 9 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller Standard SATA AHCI Controller (3x) NVIDIA Quadro K2200 [Display adapter]
4k Iiyama PL2888UH [Monitor] (27.8"vis) 32 gig of RAM.

Don't use the Corel linkage in the program, do all your graphic work outside of V5, I use win 8.1 and Microsoft have been quietly slipping in procedures that are similar to those in win 10 that don't support Corel x6, next you take control of your parameters by disabling Auto fabrics, you'll find that in the Design settings5abba5c136eaf_designsettings.PNG.a5589b14dec2451bf14977290abb1bd2.PNG5abba5889110f_autofabrics.PNG.399b91ce1ca4f545e3f8b9a6f161e6a6.PNG

untick auto fabric, you now decide density, underlay, stitch length, and the program wont impose them based on fabric type. You can preset stitch lengths, set your own satin stitch density, the default 0.36 is too tight ( I use metric) I make mine around 0.43 to 0.45 for most things but looser for designs I intend to stitch on clothing, I increase the underlay. Now go to Help and check your version. If it isn't V5.0P go and download it from Janome Global and install it. I never use Auto save, I  save frequently the whole time and I select Paint as my graphic editor, that's under Software settings. Because of the conflict between Corel x6 and win 10 and it now seems 8.1 you can run V5 under compatibility mode for win 7, so that could be a route to try.

The reason people are told not to uninstall the program is because of the Corel linkage, its far better to re run the last update V5.0P which will then repair any damaged scripts. When did you last use the Revert and Purrec (purge) to clear old backups, reset the program to factory settings, they do need to be used if you do a lot of digitising.Right I have to get on I have a whole stack of work that needs my attention.

check version.PNG

user interface settings.PNG

Magnut, thanks for the tip on setting paint as the edit artwork option, i dont like corel too complicated for me lol, i have heard that they are trying to get rid of paint also which will be a pain as it is such a simple program to use. so will be sad if they do, i will have to use corel then lol

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7 minutes ago, kazzooie said:

RedlineMan. i never eve rcontact Janome with any problems i have with V5, i go straight to Wilcom and they are more than helpful, Janome are a waste of time, i have heard of many many people still waiting for help months after they contacted janome! use this link to contact wilcom, they will be in touch within hours or a couple of days, remember they are located in Australia :)  https://www.wilcom.com/en-us/hatch/support.aspx  hopefully Janome will drop V5 cause then Wilcom will take over it. 

Hey;

Good on ya! Teresa has been VERY responsive to me, because I have been easy on her. She is the ONLY person at J/USA for tech work, and she is obviously OVERLOADED. She has gotten WILCOM involved in the past, and I have had some minor conversation with them. Frankly, I'm in a State of Grace with the whole thing. It freezes and geeks occasionally, I curse at it, ignore it, reopen it, and soldier on!

 

EDIT - Don't be afraid of CORELDraw. Trust me.... if you can master digitizing software, CORELDraw is a breeze. I mean... the REAL CORELDraw. not whatever they included with V5.

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Kazzooie, Terri the Janome America tech support lady enjoys my utmost respect, she is the only tech support operative for the whole of North America and Canada, has a crippling workload which she really does try to keep on top of. Wilcom support is meant only to be used by owners of the commercial software and Hatch owners, there is no agreement between Janome and Wilcom for support, and those who bypass Janome by using the Hatch support, causes problems for V5 users and Wilcom.

I live in England, and the tech support operative here also enjoys my utmost respect, he is actually the machine tech support but took on the mantle of software TS as the person they asked declined to take it on. Wilcom will not take on V5, they have their own domestic software, if Janome America drops V5 that will leave a great many loyal Janome end users out in the cold, and that is something I have been battling against for the past 7 years. I'm not brand loyal, but I detest the way some companies ignore their customers reducing them to nothing more than an entry in an accountants ledger. Unfortunately I'm not as young as I was, and 7 years fighting against JAI to prevent them simply cutting off current users of MBX has been hard work and very tiring. I've won many skirmishes but they don't win the battle, one bone of contention JAI used against Wilcom, was one of the Hatch support team assisted an MBX user instead of referring that user to Janome's Tech Support operative. 

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Magnut;

Let me ask an unrelated related question. One of the more difficult concepts to wrap your noob digitizer's head around is test stitching. With your vast experience, and in contrast to what a design LOOKS LIKE on the screen, how many test stitchouts do you consider normal before a design actually stitches the way it is intended to?

ADD - your latest response just came in as I typed. I agree fully with your assessment of Terri (Teresa?... it's been a while). She is great, and completely unable to handle the load she has to deal with. I don't fault her ONE BIT. For what JAI charges for the software, they damn well ought to give the girl more help!

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I have had no problems at all with help from wilcom, i tried janome once and never ever got a reply so went above them, and i will continue to contact wilcom with any problems with my V5, i have never had a problem with them helping me, i will not name the team members who have helped me, but they were awesome and i did let them know i didnt have hatch or E4 etc and that i used janome V5 software, they were fine with helping me. :) i wish i did a bit more research before buying Janome V5, i would definately gone with hatch software instead! tech support for Hatch is AMAZINg as is the aftercare and updates :)  i think i have only ever had the one update from janome V5. hatch have had a few

 

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 One of the more difficult concepts to wrap your noob digitizer's head around is test stitching. 

I'll ask you a question, how many sample squares of tatami fills with no underlay, different fill angles, different densities have you stitched. Then repeated those squares with various underlays . How many fabric types have you stitched them on, how many stabilisers have you tried. Have you identified the effects of push pull and digitised to minimise their effects. I notice you make patches, consider using scrim felt  http://www.smcristall.com/product/scrim-felt/   another supplier, http://www.nationalnonwovens.com/Applications/craft/iden.html

and another, https://www.mesasupplies.com/store/c/65-Chenille-Accessories.aspx

Ok back to your question, first as you have discovered simulated stitch view is not wysiwyg, the computer does not understand the physics of a machine stitch, thread size, needle size and type, stabiliser, so test stitching is a must. You've been using V5 for 15 months now so must have a handle on how to overlap objects, stitch lengths etc, instead of doing several whole design test stitchs do partial ones. Create 2 shapes that are adjacent in your artwork using the parameters you intend using for the design, stitch type,length, fill angles, densities,  underlay and overlap, colour thread, fabric, stabiliser, outline the 2 shapes, use a plain runline, now stitch it. The one stitch that experiences the least distortion is a runline, compare the test stitch result to the screen view, by doing regular test stitching as the design progresses you can tweak as you go. 

Stabilisers, cutaway is the best option for medium to high stitch counts, I've found one American supplier, https://www.gunold.com/catalog/sub/totally-stable-cut-away-2-oz

I'm in England, and I buy whole rolls from a wholesaler, it works out far cheaper than buying from a retail store. It took me a couple of years to get the marriage of fabric, design, stabilisers, needle and thread weights right, but I still test stitch, so in short, you will as you become more experienced, find you'll be digitising to allow for all the variables including tiredness.

 

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12 hours ago, kazzooie said:

I have had no problems at all with help from wilcom, i tried janome once and never ever got a reply so went above them, and i will continue to contact wilcom with any problems with my V5, i have never had a problem with them helping me, i will not name the team members who have helped me, but they were awesome and i did let them know i didnt have hatch or E4 etc and that i used janome V5 software, they were fine with helping me. :) i wish i did a bit more research before buying Janome V5, i would definately gone with hatch software instead! tech support for Hatch is AMAZINg as is the aftercare and updates :)  i think i have only ever had the one update from janome V5. hatch have had a few

 

Kazooie, V5.0F was the version launched and has had several updates addressing problems end users flagged up, I'll admit there hasn't been one since the release of the V5'0P update. But if folks don't inform Janome there's a glitch, it wont get addressed. I report as many as I can after discovering whether its an end user problem or program glitch, in many instances its down to woefully inadequate computer specs. I tell my students take the recommended specs and triple them. Digitising software is CAD ware and ram and display ram hungry. I also urge them to buy a desk top computer, a decent sizes monitor, a laptop lacks screen real estate. I borrowed my son's laptop with a 17.3 inch screen, I had no room to work in so handed him his laptop back. I've attached a screen shot of V5 on my desktop monitor.

v5 on DT monitor.PNG

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Magnut;

Exceptionally good information, and thank you very much for taking the time. Of course, I have not done a lot of pure test stitching just to test. Who thinks to do that? :P

One issue is that I am doing this for my own amusement. I do not generally intend to do multiples of any given design, and so the "need" to get a design to stitch perfectly for a production run is not there. Yet, the principles you offer still apply, and would certainly be of use if I were to entertain the odd production run of a design. I would certainly prefer to have a design stitch perfectly the first and only time I intend to make it, however improbable that may be. Yes, highly, I know!

Of course, I have gotten into trying different attributes for different reasons. I have taken to eliminating underlays where one item is stitching on top of a previous fill, mostly just for the economy of it, if not the redundancy. I have started even eliminating edge runs because I find on occasion that the subsequent fills miss covering them in spots. I generally tighten up overlay fields to increase color density of lights over darks, and also change angles to prevent stitch "fall through."

I have used quite a few different backers, but never as a test for stitchout accuracy in an a-to-b sense. Again, I usually do not intend nor want to do multiples of a design, so my mind is programmed toward one and done. I would expect that some of the problem is the extreme stitch counts that I see on some of these, often exceeding 250K! I would assume that the effects of this many needle strikes could not be modeled accurately with a simple, small stitch test.

Having lots of experience at prototyping in other realms, I do not foolishly expect one and done. I suppose what puzzles me most is the inconsistency of objects missing their marks. I would suppose that the distortion created by a large fill field would create a consistent inaccuracy in terms of registration of subsequent detail items, but is does not. Some portions of a subsequent adjacent fill area or border stitch will hit the mark dead on, and others will be off substantially. It does not seem to be predictable, and so can only be solved for after a "failed" stitchout. When those can take upwards of 4 hours, it gets frustrating.

In the future I need to resign myself to trying an A-to-B stitchout to see how backing effects the result.

Fabrics..... I could go on and on. A whole other tedious aspect of this embroidering puzzle. But.... I will leave it there for now.

Thanks again for your gracious consideration. I hope not to strain it to the point of disappearance! :P

IndyIce1.jpg

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7 hours ago, RedlineMan said:

Some portions of a subsequent adjacent fill area or border stitch will hit the mark dead on, and others will be off substantially. It does not seem to be predictable, and so can only be solved for after a "failed" stitchout. When those can take upwards of 4 hours, it gets frustrating.

I agree, I spent 11 hours stitching a design for a friend only to discover I'd mirrored the darn thing and as it was a map of Africa and Madagascar couldn't bluff my way out. It's a mistake I never repeated. 

If your edge runs fall outside your fills, your hoops aren't exerting enough grip to cope with the fills. I see you have a 6 needle machine, I can't see the actual shape of the hoop but I can see ripples of fabric top left and that concerns me.  http://www.kodesign.de/tricks.htm   this has proved to be a really useful tip for my 50 x 35 cm hoop for my 15 needle Tajima machine, I pre tension my hoops as well, I hoop the stabiliser and fabric I intend using, tighten the outer hoop so the inner hoop is held firmly, then pop the inner hoop out. If it doesn't need a crowbar to pop the hoop, the inner hoop will go back in without adjusting the outer hoop's screw. By pre tensioning your hoop, you release the unequal force the outer frame suffers as you tighten the screw, then when rehooping keeping your fabric grain true, there is an equal force applied around the inner hoop. 

I don't know where you are based, but you might find this link useful, https://www.impressionsmagazine.com/embroidery/process-techniques/and look at this one in particular, there's a photo guide above the article you click through.

now design and digitising,  https://www.impressionsmagazine.com/embroidery/design-digitizing/  You can subscribe or use the digital version. 

Some useful articles can be found here, https://www.embroiderydesigns.com/emb_learning/articles.aspx  Ok I'll leave you in peace in a moment, 

9 hours ago, RedlineMan said:

I generally tighten up overlay fields to increase color density of lights over darks, and also change angles to prevent stitch "fall through."

 

Now that really worries me, stop thinking like graphics creator, start thinking like Scrooge, map your colour areas, trying to cover a dark thread with a light one wont work, well it will if you intend it to be a bullet proof vest, and its wasting miles of thread. Redline, I'm going away next Tuesday, write to me privately, digimad1@yahoo.co.uk    250k stitches,  no no no, you'd need a sheet of steel as a stabiliser,  

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I've signed up to this forum just to thank you two for an interesting and helpful conversation!

I will no doubt be asking my own questions soon - I'm working my way through the awful documentation!

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1 hour ago, loobiloo said:

I've signed up to this forum just to thank you two for an interesting and helpful conversation!

I will no doubt be asking my own questions soon - I'm working my way through the awful documentation!

Welcome. I don't spend much time here, but I get notifications when there is a post. Digitizing and its software are quite different than other forms of design. Stick with it and ask as many questions as you need to. The more the merrier, and we're ALL still learning.

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